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Discussion Starter #1
I tell numerous "old-timers" that I only want to mess with the top end. I've read on here and other forums about how you can get a lot without going to the bottom end. Every time I mention top end only (for now anyways) they can't believe what I'm saying and say it's a bad way to go for performance. Why are most people against just doing the top end first, or at all? A couple people that I have talked to said that the bottom end would not be able to handle what the top end can do. I'm not looking for an all out drag car just a nice street car. I'm kind of hear asking the people that already have done the top end, did you also do something to the bottom end to handle what you did? Granted most people I talk to race dirt track and run a carb, the only fuel injection you see on the track are in sprint cars. I'm sure that makes a little difference but could it be so much of a difference that people keep telling me not to do it. The main reason I tell anyone that I want to do top end is because you always hear about doing the bottom end. I want to do something different and prove people wrong and to be a little "unique" compared to everyone else at the same time. It would definitely make people change their mind seeing how I can do it another way when it comes to top end and bottom end first. Jump off that bandwagon and make your own path.
:beer:
 

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The Unscrupulous Lt. Colonel
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Although it seems like you are venting a little steam (and rightfully so), I would think this should be in the off topic discussion.

Non the less, the word cam is about as close to getting to the bottom end as it gets. Most track car owners that build for the track (and track only) would do both the bottom end and the top. Realistically, the bottom end is designed to take a lot of power the top end produces. The concern to some of the old timers (that you maybe refering to) should be torque, and rear end. No torque, no real power! My father in law is the same way, "350 this and 350 that", and "Yeah you will jump on me, but I'll reach out and catch you".

I tell him all the time, hey I got a 350 too, I ll jump on you, and you'll have no chance to reach out and catch me. Thats because he doesn't know about the amount of torque our cars have, the kind of tune our cars are programmed for, and most importantly doesn't know what the hell he is talking about:giggle:.

For what you are looking into performance wise (as is myself and about 60% of other people), doing the top end out of the factory ordinary would cause a lot of mayhem on the street and strip. Unless it is a preference or the sheer uncertain condition of one's bottom end, doing the top end would be doing plenty!
 

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Discussion Starter #3
I'm not looking for anything radical, but a nice step up is always in mind. Truthfully I couldn't really say what I'm looking for in an end result but by no means is it going to be a drag car that you only take out for a Sunday cruise. It will still be a daily driver, got a beater car as well but how can you not want to drive our cars. It will be a long time before I get into doing any major work.. I'm just looking at my options and asking people's opinions and what they have done. I still have plenty to learn. The reason I say old-timers is because I don't know of anyone my age that has anything like my car and has done anything to it. Most people I talk to aren't used to fuel injection (in a performance aspect). They tell me get rid of fuel injection and go put a carburetor on it.
 

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The Unscrupulous Lt. Colonel
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No offense to some of the older or traditional older motors, but I would imagine it to be difficult to manage a carburated intake. Considering (speaking from older or original motors) they tend to get flooded and have more problems than fuel injected ones do.

Hence the reason why I joined the Impala and SS forums for people that indeed knows how to help us youngsters out in more ways than one. Dont let anyone intimidate you or get you all riled up. My F.I.L. does a lot of trash talking about his c10 with his 350 v8, but hasn't asked to meet up for a race yet!

Besides all that, continue to study and apply!
 

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8th Gen Antagonist
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To me, bottom end means crank, rods, and pistons. Cam, heads, and all that stuff is top. If thats what you mean as well, I wouldn't worry much about the bottom end, as long as its in good shape it should take quite a bit.
 

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Discussion Starter #6
kingnutin that's exactly the way I think of it as well... The car has 110k miles on it and I'm pretty sure it's the original motor. I think that it should be able to hold strong for what I want out of it.
 

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8th Gen Antagonist
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Its best to inspect before you take it for granted, but it will probably be ok. At the very least you should do a compression check.
 

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On older stuff you had carburetors and maladjusted chokes washing down the bores causing massive bore wear compared to these engines.

Ask the old timers what appropriate compression should be and they would be floored to find out these things are up in the 190psi at 10:1 static bone stock on 87 octane.

Honestly the stock bottomend is BETTER than a lot of the reworked bottomends guys put together. Have to remember too that by 96 they had a target 100k tuneup interval, by that point a lot of the old carbed stuff was genuinely worn out, these things are just getting their first set of plugs changed.
 

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Shit, I've been running 89 through it. pointless waste of money.

That said, I can definitely attest to what Kane said. The barracuda is extremely temperamental when starting it. I pump the gas 3 times if it's been sitting an 1/2 hour or more, none if it's been sitting 5 min, and I still don't know in between yet. But if I sit for 10 min and try to start it, it won't start without flooding because it won't start with out pumping and I think I pump it too much. Then it dies literally every time I stop until I've run it about 25 mph for 30 seconds, then it's fine. I don't like carbs for that reason, once the engine gets rebuilt I'm putting in a aftermarket TBI.
 

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8th Gen Antagonist
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Thats why I want to go LT1 or LSx, tired of fighting with it...
 

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Do It! Do It! Do It! Do It! :mob: LSx has my vote, but that's just me....plenty of wrecks to get the goods these days..
 

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The Unscrupulous Lt. Colonel
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Do It! Do It! Do It! Do It! :mob: LSx has my vote, but that's just me....plenty of wrecks to get the goods these days..

LT, LT, LT, LT, LT, LT, LT, LT:mob::mob::mob:
 

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I love the LT1 BUT if retrofitting an injected V8 into a carbed car I would jump right to the LS platform, though an actual LS1 is about the LAST variant of the series I would use. You want cheap go with a 5.3l you want a little more money and big power potential like easily north of 500hp NA, 600hp is in reach even then go with a 6.0l because the larger bore lets you use better heads.
 

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Someday, when I have money to burn...

I would probably go with a 6.0 from a truck, not with the variable valve timing because I don't know much about it, and I don't really trust it that much.
 

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Are you kidding. VVT is the shit. You can run a cam with absolutely ridiculous horse power specs, although there probably is a limit to what you can run, and still get decent milage. There are people doing that in their automatic 10 and 11 Camaros.

The basics to VVt are allowing you to run a more horsepower biased engine and still get good torque. Look at a lot of the DOHC V6s that GM, Ford, and Chrysler are putting out. Even though V6s are a lower torqued engine, biased more for horsepower check out this graph of the 08 Malibu 3.6.

Redirect Notice no idea why it's doing that, just move the print screen out of the way.

or the 2010 Taurus SHO:
http://www.carenvy.ca/wp-content/uploads/2009/02/2010_ford_taurus_sho_ecoboost_power-curve.jpg

That is what VVt can do for you. If I ever end up building my Caddy 500 powered 4 seat super car I will try to put a set of custom made SOHC heads on it with VVT. Then run some fairly radical cams through it as the technology needed to do that will probably be caught up by then. If it's possible, I would like to see if I could use parts from this engine head set up. Not the actual heads, but if it's possible to use the basic valve train parts it would help keep costs down to just making sure the bolts line up from the heads to the block. http://www.hotrod.com/techarticles/engine/hrdp_0908_ford_427_cammer_build/index.html

And this is the article that made me a believer.
http://www.hotrod.com/techarticles/engine/hrdp_0908_variable_valve_timing/index.html I know, many links I'll stop now.
 

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If I ever end up building my Caddy 500 powered 4 seat super car.
start new thread....I want to hear every dirty detail about this! :devil: LOL I thought I was the only one who thinks up crazy shit like this! :cool: :yahoo:
 

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8th Gen Antagonist
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Thats a lot of reading, I suppose I'll read the rest of it eventually. My beef with VVT isn't that I think its bad, its that if something goes wrong with it I won't have the first clue how to fix it.
 

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Well, then all we have to do is wait. If reports come back that in about 150K miles the VVT on cars starts failing in a few years, then we know that it's probably not the best idea to use yet.
 

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Waiting will be no issue, looking at my finances, I should be able to afford the swap by 3012.
 

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Discussion Starter #20
Should be able to?? By that time we will be flying cars. :biggrin:
 
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