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just got my engine oil changed at the dealership and they installed the PF48E filter instead of the PF63E which is the one in the owner's manual.


just wondering.. is this like the new type or what's the deal?
 

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just got my engine oil changed at the dealership and they installed the PF48E filter instead of the PF63E which is the one in the owner's manual.


just wondering.. is this like the new type or what's the deal?


GM issued a TSB instructing dealers NOT to use the PF48 or PF48E oil filter on 2012 and later models with the 3.6L LFX engine. The TSB instructed the dealers to use ONLY PF63E - which has a higher pressure operating range and a higher bypass valve opening design.

The matter has been discusssed extensively on this forum and if you do a search, you will probably find the TSB.

Your dealer is incompetent.
 

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Your dealer is incompetent.
Think most are. Brought the tsb on this to the attention of the dealer we bought our car from and they were clueless. Needless to say they have used a pf63 on our car since.
 

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Yeah, it's crazy - dealerships are supposed to be the people "in the know" about your car and most don't appear to be any better than Joe Mechanic down the street. The only difference is that the dealerships have access to tons of useful information (TSBs, etc) - but it seems that a lot of them don't use that information to their advantage....

That being said, I don't think it's the end of the world using the PF48 (it's what came on the car from the factory, I believe) - there are TONS of these Impalas on the road using PF48 oil filters. You'll be just fine. Just point this issue out to the dealership the next time you go in (if you return to that dealership). Trust me, they are not the only dealership doing this. In fact, I think the dealership that @1999 White C5 Coupe uses did the same thing to him in the past - same with other members. Unfortunately, it seems to be a common issue.
 

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Yeah, it's crazy - dealerships are supposed to be the people "in the know" about your car and most don't appear to be any better than Joe Mechanic down the street. The only difference is that the dealerships have access to tons of useful information (TSBs, etc) - but it seems that a lot of them don't use that information to their advantage....

That being said, I don't think it's the end of the world using the PF48 (it's what came on the car from the factory, I believe) - there are TONS of these Impalas on the road using PF48 oil filters. You'll be just fine. Just point this issue out to the dealership the next time you go in (if you return to that dealership). Trust me, they are not the only dealership doing this. In fact, I think the dealership that @1999 White C5 Coupe uses did the same thing to him in the past - same with other members. Unfortunately, it seems to be a common issue.


I did have the same problem - with two Impala LTZ models that should have had the PF63E installed. Clueless “factory trained” service department technicians at my authorized Chevrolet dealership, where we have bought numerous new vehicles.

The TSB states the engine is built with the PF64 (not PF48) - due to clearance issues at factory assembly. I’m surprised that the recommended filter is not the PF64 that the engine is built with.

I do NOT think the PF48 is correct or okay to use, since GM issued a bulletin specifically for certain motors and the PF63E filters.
 

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This whole oil filter mess (and it *is* a mess) is ridiculous. Even if you go to the AC-Delco parts list website, it lists the PF48 as a filter option for the 2012/2013 Impala!

 

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This whole oil filter mess (and it *is* a mess) is ridiculous. Even if you go to the AC-Delco parts list website, it lists the PF48 as a filter option for the 2012/2013 Impala!

Confusion on this issue would be a huge understatement. The police version lfx engines still use the pf48. Surprised they continue to list the incorrect filter at ac delco. Had pointed out the same issue several months ago.

Last time I checked the books at walmart list the pf48 as the correct filter as well, with the pf63 being the option. We had the first over 100,000 miles worth of oil changes performed with using the "incorrect" filter. I was guilty of using the "incorrect" filter myself on I think 2 of the changes I performed before becoming aware of the tsb that was brought to my attention here on these forums.

I asked the question before of Maven and any other gm certified mechanics as to what possible potential damage might be done using the 48, never did see any definitive answer. In my mind the gm authorized dealers that used the pf48 bear total responsibility for any damages that result due to incorrect parts used by their service depts.

We now have over 150,000 miles on our 2012, the car still uses no oil between changes and still runs like new. I checked the stick on the car after about 4000 miles on the last oil change and it was still near the top dot. We have typically changed the oil around 35 percent on the olm.

I kind of wonder if the "performance issues" are with owners that are the pedal to the floor types.
 

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GM has quite a litany of "problems". Remember the 8-6-4 Caddys and Olds, and a diesel made from a gasoline motor and my favorite; 3.1 Malibu head gasket. Bet all those engineers drive BMW's and Audi's. Has anyone documented any real damage from these low and high pressure filters? :dunno:
 

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That diesel wasn't made from a gasoline motor. I had three of the DX variants that ran for well over 300,000 miles each. I know for a fact that the last one is still in operation in a 1985 C10 pickup at well over 400,000 miles.
The Oldsmobile diesel used a completely different block and head castings. The exhaust manifolds and motor mounts were similar so they didn't have to re-tool the frames. The accessory mounts were diesel only orphans that allowed the alternators and power steering pumps from the Rocket motors to be used on the diesels. The bean counters issued an edict that the diesel had to be assembled using most if not all of the gasoline engine tooling so the engineers obediently removed needed head bolts and downsized them to gasoline engine size bolts as well. Studs did make up for the deficiency but GM never used them.
The fuel filters were a dismal mess as well. No water separation in the box filters even on the AMG Detroit 6.2L engines. Fuel suppliers were not careful to monitor water in the fuel in the 70's... or they purposely watered it down to pad thier profit margins because nobody was watching them. I remember gramps being madder than a wet hen about getting around 100 gallons of water in one 500 gallon shipment of farm fuel. I was careful to buy fuel from the high volume truck stops for my 1978 Rabbit. Local fuel was asking for a frozen filter and rusty injection pump.

The DX variant of the LF9 350 diesel has thick nickel iron cylinder walls and massive crankshaft supports. It can be made into a gasoline stroker that will take serious doses of nitrous with custom Mondello camshaft, cylinder heads, pistons, rods, crankshaft, and extensive machine work.

The 4-6-8 caddy is a similar concept to the AFM systems in use on the LS4 and truck 4.8 & 5.3 without the computing power to make it really work. The EFI ECM system in the 80's Caddy was embryonic at best. TTL logic chips and not much in the way of memory and a real CPU. Most of the early 80's EFI systems were truly awful for that very reason... Anyone remember crossfire fuel injection? VW, Benz, BMW, Datsun, and Toyota all used mechanical fuel injection into the 80's because it worked.

It's quite obnoxious that GM can't get their collective act together and agree on something as simple as the LFX oil filter.
 

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I believe that the main difference between all of these filters (besides the size - some are taller than others) is the bypass valve specs. The PF63E uses a 22psi bypass valve and the others use a 12psi bypass valve (if I remember correctly). But when you think about this, all that means is that the "wrong" filters will bypass quicker than the "right" filters. Keep in mind that the bypass valve is only used in rare situations (inital startup if oil is really cold and thicker than normal and if the filter is too clogged to operate normally are the two main reasons that I can think of). Personally, in those cases, I think you'd be better off bypassing in order to give the engine the oil it needs. To me, dirty oil is better than not enough oil. They specified the 12psi spec filter for my 2012 for like 3 years before eventually changing the spec to 22psi.

If you change your oil filter frequently and don't live in Alaska, I highly doubt the bypass valve spec difference will make any difference whatsoever - and if anything, to me, a lower psi bypass valve seems "safer" than a higher psi bypass valve. Again, I would rather feed my engine dirty oil than starve it of oil.

Hell, for all we know, GM changed the spec because the engines were lasting *too* long! :) After all, they *are* in the business of selling cars! Yes, that is a "conspiracy"-theory type statement and is probably a little overboard, but hey, you never know! Or maybe it was an attempt to deny warranty claims becuase people were using the "wrong" oil filter. Or maybe it was an attempt to force people to buy AC-Delco oil fitlers becuase they are now the only ones that meet their (changed) specs! Obviously, we have evidence of these cars using the "wrong" filter for 150k miles and they are running fine, so I truly don't believe the lower psi bypass valve is a major issue at all.

All of that being said - I'm curious to hear "alternative views" on the subject! :)
 

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Hatzie I stand corrected. JT, thanks for the very telling specs on bypass pressure. I'm going with the engines lasting too long theory and if your running 5w30 (like I do) it should never bypass (especially here in NM). Correct?
 

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I wouldn't say that it will "never" bypass, but as long as you change your oil and oil filter regularly (5k miles or less in my recommendation), it's not going to bypass very often - and even if it does, it's not like that very brief bypass is going to cause any major issues (as your oil would never be *that* dirty to begin with). It may still bypass under certain rare circumstances very brieflt (initial start-up, or sudden pedal-to-the-floor situations), but it would be very brief - and I would rather have "dirty" oil getting to my engine than not enough oil - but that is just based on my understanding on the subject - and I'm certainly no expert - this is just what I would think if you think about the difference logically. Plus, the fact that others who have run the "wrong" filter for so long and never has any issues is also some evidence to consider - and the fact that the original filters for my 2012, for example, had the lower bypass valve spec from the factory - and the fact that the police Impalas *still* spec the lower bypass filter - and.... well, you get the point. I would think that the lower bypass spec would only be an issue if you don't maintain your car properly (frequent oil and filter changes).

I honeslty don't think this is a real issue to worry about based on what I've seen... But again, always interested to hear others opinions as I am NOT an expert on the subject. Does anyone else think that the bypass would be used very often under normal circumstances? If so, what are they?
 

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Thanks!

I'll say thanks! Having my oil changed Monday and this was verrrrrrrry interesting to say the least. I'm imagining myself arguing for the wrong filter to be placed on my car. Hahaha
 

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I believe that the main difference between all of these filters (besides the size - some are taller than others) is the bypass valve specs. The PF63E uses a 22psi bypass valve and the others use a 12psi bypass valve (if I remember correctly). But when you think about this, all that means is that the "wrong" filters will bypass quicker than the "right" filters. Keep in mind that the bypass valve is only used in rare situations (inital startup if oil is really cold and thicker than normal and if the filter is too clogged to operate normally are the two main reasons that I can think of). Personally, in those cases, I think you'd be better off bypassing in order to give the engine the oil it needs. To me, dirty oil is better than not enough oil. They specified the 12psi spec filter for my 2012 for like 3 years before eventually changing the spec to 22psi.

If you change your oil filter frequently and don't live in Alaska, I highly doubt the bypass valve spec difference will make any difference whatsoever - and if anything, to me, a lower psi bypass valve seems "safer" than a higher psi bypass valve. Again, I would rather feed my engine dirty oil than starve it of oil.

Hell, for all we know, GM changed the spec because the engines were lasting *too* long! :) After all, they *are* in the business of selling cars! Yes, that is a "conspiracy"-theory type statement and is probably a little overboard, but hey, you never know! Or maybe it was an attempt to deny warranty claims becuase people were using the "wrong" oil filter. Or maybe it was an attempt to force people to buy AC-Delco oil fitlers becuase they are now the only ones that meet their (changed) specs! Obviously, we have evidence of these cars using the "wrong" filter for 150k miles and they are running fine, so I truly don't believe the lower psi bypass valve is a major issue at all.

All of that being said - I'm curious to hear "alternative views" on the subject! :)
It's not because the engines were lasting too long, the change was done because the engine specifications changed and the 2012+ engines got tighter inside requiring higher oil pressures. See this techlink article for more info. https://sandyblogs.com/techlink/?p=4518


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But then why did GM not change the specification for my Impala until a few years after it came out? The original PF63 oil filter was specified for my 2012 for a few years before they changed the specification (the original PF63 had the lower bypass valve spec). Surely, they would have realized that the spec needed change right away if they changed the internal clearances? Did it really take them a few years to realize this?

And why do they still recommend the lower bypass valve spec for the police Impalas (same engine, slightly modified tune)?

Something just doesn't add up here...

And please don't get me wrong - I'm not trying to shoot the messenger here. I've seen that article that you linked to before, but that is the ONLY place I've read such a thing and not sure what to believe. To me, if they changed the internal clearances enough to warranty an oil pressure change, you'd think that they would also adjust the oil filter specs to match - instead of waiting a few years - and even then, not changing it for police vehicle oil filters, which are driven harder and longer than normal vehicles.

They also state "starting in 2012" - so does that mean that some LFX engines are differernt than others? Or are they saying that 2012 is when the LFX engine was first being produced? Obviously, if some LFX engines have higher tolerances than others, that could really be confusing! :) I also wonder why the TSB mentioned above only covers 2012 and 2013 Impalas, even though the TSB is dated 2017 - what about the 2014+ Impalas - they don't need the revied oil filter? :) It just doesn't make sense to me.

Like I said above, I'm certainly not an expert on the subject, so these are genuine questions. Either GM really dropped the ball (by not adjusting the oil filter specs originally *and* not updating the specs for police vehicles) or someone is making this crap up.

I also wonder if the oil filter spec difference *really* makes a difference on properly maintained cars...
 

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I cannot find the oil filter type for my car in my manual (2013 Impala LT) So looked at the one installed which reads "GROUP V2500" Anyone know of this brand? I did find on the internet a GMC V2500, why isn't that info in my booklet?
 

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It should defintiely be in your owners manual, but what it says there is apparently incorrect anyway... :)

Here is the "Maintenance Replacement Parts" section from my 2012 Owners Manual:

 
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