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The GM MagRide does an awesome job of being both soft and firm. Would LOVE it if my Tesla had that vs. the adjustable height air suspension it has.

This is a bit dated but one of my kids teachers had an I think 2012 300 with the AWD and she and her husband were in agreement, never again, always in the shop, guessing that is why they don't offer it with the V8. Now they could and hopefully have addressed a lot in the 7 years since, but we are talking mopar, always been about image over quality. I have known Dodge fans, but none that wee ever thoughtful and considered them decent vehicles. I would do an AWD Taurus first.
 

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I Have a 2014 P85 I bought second half of 2017 with 65k up over 80k now. I love it though have had a few problems. Mine is VIN in the 42,XXX range so I hope they got things worked out a bit better and the parts that did fail were updated. This fall the TPMS module failed($600 with new sensors), sensors batteries were dying anyway so I planned to update the system to display pressure(old one did not display), this just forced my hand as far as when I did it because it jambed up the CanBus and disabled the vehicle in doing so, this can happen on other cars brother-in-law who used to work on European stuff said he has seen it.
Then the battery heater failed they covered that under goodwill.

My car was heavily optioned for 2014 but they have a LOT of upgrades since. Really wish mine had the Traffic Aware Cruise Control. I suspect that by using it to draft to a degree it could really stretch highway range and you do not have to be terribly close, normal follow distances I can see a meaningful efficiency gain. At 78mph though you see a big efficiency hit unless you have someone moving some of the wind out of the way.

If you don't need a lot of cargo room the Model 3 is attractive from an interior space and features perspective and is a lot more efficient than the S.

Think my car is rated at 293wh/mile or something there abouts where the Model 3 being smaller with a permanent magnet motor is more like 220. "rated" is a bit like factory spec MPG you don't see it often The other day on my roadtrip I was seeing probably about 340wh/m cruising between 62-80mph with a 40degree heating rise rolling modest hillls. Heat use matters since it is electric resistance heat not waste heat from an engine. That was moving with traffic, numbers would be worse if I was on the highway alone at 80mph, Probably 400wh/mile. They used to have a calculator that would let you set temp and speed and my 265mile range car was projected to be 400miles if you drove at 45mph and the NAV will yell at you if you are hurting efficiency with speed enough to risk running low on juice.
Some food for thought on drafting other vehicles. It's a bad idea for a lot of reasons. I drove long haul big truck for several years in my misspent youth so I saw a lot of bad things happen on the road. Drafting is something that really gets under my skin.

If you make a misstep and clip that 80,000lb 54' trailer at 70mph that driver might not be able to recover control of the tractor and trailer no matter how good he is.

Besides being extremely dangerous for you, your vehicle, the occupants of your vehicle, and the vehicle and occupants ahead of you...
TANSTAAFL... That air pocket extending over your vehicle means you are being towed down the road by that stranger you are choosing to tailgate.

In my 100HP 2005 A5 Jetta TDI I can feel the drag from someone following me too close. I've noticed the drag before I look in the rear-view mirror on more than one occasion.
I can also see the negative effect on my fuel mileage on the Instant Fuel Mileage widget on the instrument cluster. When I'm driving North on I93 between Canturbury and Campton, at 3:30 AM, at 70MPH, with no other traffic, I get 44-47mpg. When I'm driving North up the same stretch of I93 at 11:00 PM with other drivers tailgating me in the slow lane at 70MPH I typically see 39-42mpg with bursts of the aforementioned 44-47mpg when I loose the tailgaters.

Since it costs the lead vehicle fuel that you are not paying for and you did not ask permission to receive... you are effectively stealing that fuel from them. You are not entitled to someone else's fuel by virtue of the fact that you have an electric car and you are traveling on the same stretch of road.
 

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I have known Dodge fans, but none that wee ever thoughtful and considered them decent vehicles. I would do an AWD Taurus first.
Yeah, reliability is a major concern if I do consider a Dodge/Chrysler product. I've always heard bad things about their reliability. Not really a fan of the Taurus though, so I don't think that would even be on my list. The way a car looks is important to me and I really don't like the way any of the Fords look, so it's kind of a non-starter. Obviously, looks aren't everything, but I start with a list of cars that that appeal to me in terms of looks and then work from there - so the Taurus would never even make it to my list at all.

Since it costs the lead vehicle fuel that you are not paying for and you did not ask permission to receive... you are effectively stealing that fuel from them. You are not entitled to someone else's fuel by virtue of the fact that you have an electric car and you are traveling on the same stretch of road.
I'm sorry, but saying that you are "stealing" from someone becuase you are diving 100ft behind them (for example) is a little of an over-reach. :) I do NOT support tailgating in any way, but I have read that this "drafting" can work even if you are 100-150ft behind a truck - which really isn't "tailgating" IMO. You do not have to "ask permission" to drive 100ft behind someone and it is not illegal is any way. If they don't like it, they are free to pull over, switch lanes or even slow down and let the person behind them pass, but the person is doing nothing wrong and to call is "stealing" is just going way too far - in my opinion, that is. :)
 

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The rule I was taught in Driver Ed in 1980 was I should allow 3 seconds between me and the vehicle I'm following. For some reason it's now taught that it's 2 seconds. I assume they think that ABS and traction control will make up for the shorter reaction time needed when something untoward happens.

100ft at 45-80mph is not even remotely safe using either 2 or 3 seconds. Two seconds is 132ft from the car in front at 45mph... three seconds at 45mph is 198ft.
150ft isn't really safe at any speeds above 50mph.

Here's a MPH to FPS cheat sheet that should be a fairly big eye opener. Safe following distance is a bare minimum of double the Feet per second. Following closer than a safe following distance is the definition of tailgating.

1 mile per hour = 1.4667 feet per second
10 miles per hour = 14.7 feet per second
20 miles per hour = 29.3 feet per second
25 miles per hour = 36.7 feet per second
30 miles per hour = 44.0 feet per second
35 miles per hour = 51.3 feet per second
40 miles per hour = 58.7 feet per second
45 miles per hour = 66.0 feet per second
50 miles per hour = 73.3 feet per second
55 miles per hour = 80.7 feet per second
60 miles per hour = 88.0 feet per second
65 miles per hour = 95.3 feet per second
70 miles per hour = 102.7 feet per second
75 miles per hour = 110 feet per second
80 miles per hour = 117.3 feet per second

Following close enough to reliably cost me 5-7mpg is what I object to. People here do it do it with extreme regularity.

A 5MPG drop in mileage is .333 gallons of diesel every 100 miles... so a 5mpg drop in mileage spread over 300 miles costs me .999 gallons of diesel fuel. Effectively a gallon.
If I siphoned a gallon of fuel from your tank every 300 miles that you traveled would you call that stealing? That's what's happening and they don't even need to thread a hose into my tank to do it.

It's a shock to have someone point out that this behavior is stealing but it can't be called anything else. I will not apologize for telling it like it is.
 

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Yeah, well, Drivers Ed also tells you to have both hands on the wheel at all times and never go faster than the speed limit - and I'm sure you do that, right? :)

If you want to claim it's a safety issue, that's one thing - but "stealing"? No way. If you truly believe that it's stealing, try calling the police on them and tell them that the car behind you is stealing your gas by driving "too close" - see how well that goes over. ;-)

Personally, while I've never measured, I'm *sure* I've driven 150ft or less behind someone on the highway doing 65-70mph MANY times - and I've never once rear-ended someone. I'm sure that I'm not alone.

I'm sorry - but calling it stealing is just not right.
 

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i mean, have you ridden in a challenger? cause the few times i have they were reasonably riding for a sports car. they might surprise you on the ride. i hit a pothole that i knew would have rattled the old 74 challenger, then it unexpectedly glided over said pot hole without incident. was impressive actually. check one out sometime.
My birthday is coming up on 2/3 and I jokingly sent this link to my wife telling her it's what I wanted for my birthday (we always laugh at those commercials where people buy cars for someone for Christmas) - and to my surprise, my wife (who is one of the cheapest people I know) says "call them and see what kind of price they can give you"! I almost fell over... ;-) Not saying that I'm actually going to buy this car, but it is tempting....

https://www.carfax.com/vehicle/2C3CDZGG6JH306162

Not sure what is up with me and white cars, but out of all of the colors (even black), I just think the white looks the sharpest...
 

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the inner child in me says the 5.7 v8 with 30k miles give or take is that price or less...but if you were wanting the all wheel drive model, i don't see a gt badge on that one (i know it claims awd just check for front half shafts). but go take it for a test drive, i think you'll like it. and for a little bit more you can have a gently used 6.4 scat pack challenger (my personal choice). personally i'm aiming for b5 blue or settling with a dark grey/black.

but hey she offered, i'd take her up on it lol
 

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Yeah, I wasn't even serious when I forwarded it to her... I too am still not sure if would want to go with the 5.8L V8 or the 3.6L V6 with AWD. The AWD versions almost seem more expensive than the RWD V8. But in reality, I'm just not sure I need the V8. It's not that much more power, uses more gas, it'll be louder on the inside of the car (which would probably get old in a daily driver) and I would lose the AWD option. To me, the AWD is something that I consider a big benefit living in PA - especially when the other option is RWD (which is probably the worst option for snow). While I don't need to drive in the snow that much anymore, it would be nice to have when I need it. I'm just not sure it's worth moving up to the V8 and losing AWD for what basically amounts to a nice sound that may end up annoying me on longer drives. :)

But I don't even know if I'll test drive yet. I really wasn't even considering a purchase until my Impala is paid off (I think I owe another $1k or so - so a few more months). I was just checking out what's out there. We'll see. But I (and my wife) both really like the way the car looks, that's for sure. I love the retro-style look.
 

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Yeah, well, Drivers Ed also tells you to have both hands on the wheel at all times and never go faster than the speed limit - and I'm sure you do that, right? :)

If you want to claim it's a safety issue, that's one thing - but "stealing"? No way. If you truly believe that it's stealing, try calling the police on them and tell them that the car behind you is stealing your gas by driving "too close" - see how well that goes over. ;-).

There are plenty of traffic offenses the police aren't interested in pulling people over for... Including but not limited to tailgating. They aren't going to take Joe Sixpacks' word that someone was tailgating him and they don't give a damn that it's costing Joe fuel. Theft or not it's not codified into law.
I have blackberry bushes that I planted at the bottom of a hill well onto my property but they now grow over the hill onto the neighbors property. I ask to pick the ones on their side of the line... Could I just pick them? Yup. Nobody is going to prosecute me for stealing them but they aren't mine because they aren't growing on my property.

Your "feelings" don't change the numbers. I track my fuel mileage from fill up to fill up. It does cost me around 5mpg on the highway to have someone following me very closely for large chunks of the trip.
I've done a semi-controlled test on I 93 from Campton to Tilton and back twice in the middle of the night with a bored buddy that didn't believe my numbers. I said I could prove it and since I was willing to pay for all of the fuel including the last full tank he was willing to give it a whirl. One round trip was too close and one was at a decent distance. Same rate of speed 50mph. 2005 A5 VW Jetta TDI and a 2000 Jetta TDI. At 1:00 AM nobody else is out there. 6MPG less when he followed me too closely folks... He was uncomfortably close the whole tailgating trip and he gained between 2 & 3 MPG over the regular trip.

Personally, while I've never measured, I'm *sure* I've driven 150ft or less behind someone on the highway doing 65-70mph MANY times - and I've never once rear-ended someone. I'm sure that I'm not alone.
And you've no doubt driven a stretch of 65mph highway at 85mph several times and no police were there to ticket you.
It doesn't make it all better that you got away with it.
Teenagers go over 100mph on desolate stretches of road all the time.
Not a good choice.
Dumb blind luck does not impress me. All it takes is one misstep or angry individual or just plain bad driver in front of you and you become one of the people that have kissed the car in front of you with your front bumper at highway speeds.


Taking things without asking is stealing. I guarantee there are lots of things that we all do that once it's pointed out how wrong it is, and why, we are not proud of.
My first reaction to one of these revelations is "I'm a good honest guy and I don't do things like that"... Maturity is when you reach the point where you can own it, fix it, and move on. Yup I did that and, now that I see it, I'll do my damndest to make sure I don't do it again.:eek:k3:
 

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Twenty years ago I was a passenger with my daughter driving and must have nearly pushed a hole in the passenger floor board. That was scary and I told her so. She laughed at the time as I remember. Now, 20 years later, she drives like her dad. Maturity and a couple of accidents can surely change you perceptions can't it.
 

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I'd definitely recommend steering clear of the newer Taurus 3.5 or 3.7 PI with its internal h2o pump. Remember the 'ol Dodge Intrepid, etc. Over on the Taurus forum, failure seems pretty common at ~80-100k mi. If caught before coolant enters the crankcase, figure ~$2k. If coolant mixes with oil, kiss the engine good-bye. Ridiculous design Ford!!!
 

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I'd definitely recommend steering clear of the newer Taurus 3.5 or 3.7 PI with its internal h2o pump. Remember the 'ol Dodge Intrepid, etc. Over on the Taurus forum, failure seems pretty common at ~80-100k mi. If caught before coolant enters the crankcase, figure ~$2k. If coolant mixes with oil, kiss the engine good-bye. Ridiculous Ford!!!
That's good to know. A SHO Taurus was definitely on my list of cars that I would have loved to purchase for a daily driver.
 

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That takes you right past the USS Massachusetts battleship, right? I've been on her twice.

Doug

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I had to look it up... That's over three hours South in Fall River Mass near the I195 bridge over the North end of Mt Hope Bay.

The Tilton exit off I93 is about 1/2 hour north of Concord NH.
 

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I had to look it up... That's over three hours South in Fall River Mass near the I195 bridge over the North end of Mt Hope Bay.

The Tilton exit off I93 is about 1/2 hour north of Concord NH.
I'm gonna blame that on my computer :) I swear, yesterday, when I put Tilton and Campton into Google maps , it took me right thru Fall River. Today, nowhere near there :(

That said, it you ever get down that way, they have a really nice Navy museum there. Besides the Massachusetts, they have some very nicely preserved PT boats - the 12-cylinder engines are impressive :)

Doug

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Who knows, I just may make a Dodge Challenger my next car! :) I never thought that I would say that, but if GM isn't going to make cars that I like, I'll just buy from another US company that is. I refuse to buy a car from a foreign company, regardless of where it's made (not wanting to debate that whole thing again though). :) I rarely drive in the snow anymore, so I can probably get away with a rear-wheel drive car nowadays...

Then again, the used market will be plentiful for a while - probably at least until they decide to start making cars again once poeple start getting tired of SUVs. ;-)
I can say that a Challenger Scat Pack doesn't ride as hard as some other performance cars, but it is not a soft ride, either. Check out the new Buick LaCrosse. They say the 3.6L is fast, the new LaCrosse handles well, and of course, rides good! My mom always had a Buick, so I certainly know what you mean about their ride. There's always the Cadillac ATS-V (https://www.cadillac.com/v-series). You'll a good ride...and fast!!
 

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Honestly, I already have a LaCrosse and I don't think it's big enough. My 2012 Impala seems so much bigger. Unfortunately, Buick quit making "big" cars. IMO, the last "big" car that they made was the Buick Lucerne and from what I've read, that wasn't a very good car. The last big Buick I actually owned was a LaSabre (2000 or 2002 - can't remember) - it was OK, but wasn't real big on quality either. It did have a nice ride though. Not sure what I'm going to do yet. Might look at a Challenger, some for of Cadillac and maybe even a 9th gen Impala. I think the Cadillacs would be more than I want to pay though.
 

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Honestly, I already have a LaCrosse and I don't think it's big enough. My 2012 Impala seems so much bigger. Unfortunately, Buick quit making "big" cars. IMO, the last "big" car that they made was the Buick Lucerne and from what I've read, that wasn't a very good car. The last big Buick I actually owned was a LaSabre (2000 or 2002 - can't remember) - it was OK, but wasn't real big on quality either. It did have a nice ride though. Not sure what I'm going to do yet. Might look at a Challenger, some for of Cadillac and maybe even a 9th gen Impala. I think the Cadillacs would be more than I want to pay though.
The Chryslers I've driven as rental cars seem pretty cheaply built for the price of them.
 
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