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post #16 of (permalink) Old 06-16-2015
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Originally Posted by [email protected] View Post
Providing information needed to disable safety and emissions systems isnt a liability?

You provide a manual that tells a customer how to disable the airbags....they do so and are injured/die. GM would lose that case, you know it.

We live a society where have been awarded MILLIONS of dollars because they spilled their own hot coffee on themselves....imagine the shit storm from this type of scenario.
Liability doesn't seem to be a problem with Helm... Hell, you can disable safety systems by pulling a fuse if you wanted to - GM even tells you which fuse is for the airbags, ABS, etc... I don't see how anyone can be liable for providing the information - it's up to you to use your brain on how to use the information. All it takes is a simple disclaimer - TONS of companies provide "dangerous" infomation if it isn't used properly - that doesn't mean that they are liable for what you do with that information.

Again, anybody that wants the information can already get it. Just because you have to pay for it, wait for it, etc doesn't mean the liability is any different than if it was included with the vehicle.

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post #17 of (permalink) Old 06-16-2015
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Originally Posted by impy2ltz2014 View Post
As I figured, I didn't get an email from them that it was available.
But I've been checking almost every other night.

Shipping is pretty steep, ~$40, handling ~$9...

Just make sure you don't order the Limited version...


Item Number Name Unit Price Qty Total Price
GMP14GCI 2014 Chevy Impala Service Manual Set $200.00 1 $200.00


Subtotal Shipping Handling Tax Total
$200.00 $39.78 $8.75 $0.00 $248.53
At Helm, they are $375 plus what ever it cost to ship. Plus they now have this note when you go to order it.

"This manual is a digital reprint of the original publication. It is possible that this item will be in loose-leaf format. Any wiring diagrams in the original shop/service manual are NOT reproduceable and are no longer available."

Last edited by flnobody; 06-16-2015 at 02:32 PM.
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post #18 of (permalink) Old 06-16-2015
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I just found this on line. I don't know much about them, but the manuals cost $325. and looks complete.

2014 Chevy Impala Factory Service Manual Set Original Shop Repair
Brand:
General Motors Corporation



$325.00
SKU: GMP14GCIN
Condition: New

http://www.factoryrepairmanuals.com/2014-chevy-impala-factory-service-manual-set-original-shop-repair/
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post #19 of (permalink) Old 06-16-2015 Thread Starter
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@flnobody That's the one!
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post #20 of (permalink) Old 06-17-2015
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Originally Posted by flnobody View Post
Any wiring diagrams in the original shop/service manual are NOT reproduceable and are no longer available."

LMFAO....thats great.
post #21 of (permalink) Old 06-17-2015
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Originally Posted by jtrosky View Post
Liability doesn't seem to be a problem with Helm... Hell, you can disable safety systems by pulling a fuse if you wanted to - GM even tells you which fuse is for the airbags, ABS, etc... I don't see how anyone can be liable for providing the information - it's up to you to use your brain on how to use the information. All it takes is a simple disclaimer - TONS of companies provide "dangerous" infomation if it isn't used properly - that doesn't mean that they are liable for what you do with that information.

Again, anybody that wants the information can already get it. Just because you have to pay for it, wait for it, etc doesn't mean the liability is any different than if it was included with the vehicle.

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I dont know if you are willfully ignoring me, dont realize how litigious a society we live in or truly believe that providing vehicle wide comprehensive service information with every vehicle wouldnt result in increased litigation.

We arent talking about Helm, or whether or not anyone would liable for providing the information. In fact I never once used the word "liable" or "liability"

My point is that if GM provides the end user with the service manual, stupid shit will happen, and GM will get sued.

If you dont believe thats true, while I appreciate the urbanity of the conversations we have been holding I feel your opinion on this matter is ingenuous, bordering on showing naivete.
post #22 of (permalink) Old 08-17-2015
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$510 now :-( seems like the price must go up monthly.
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post #23 of (permalink) Old 03-03-2016
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dmb0702 View Post
$510 now :-( seems like the price must go up monthly.


They are prob like "oh crap...somebody actually WANTS this?--hey Marge, go over and copy this stupid manual again...."
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post #24 of (permalink) Old 03-04-2016
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The price is a joke. Same way they screw college kids with text books that cost $300. With the digital age they don't even have to print actual manuals anymore
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post #25 of (permalink) Old 03-06-2016
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Looks like it's back down to a slightly less ridiculous price of $375 (which is probably $450 after they gouge your nads off for shipping).

And the "Reproduction of Original Publication" bit seems to reinforce the "Hey Marge go Xerox this" theory that Cleatus gave.

What most likely happens is that they have an initial print run of 3126 for their 3125 dealers plus one extra - only the dealerships get the real thing, the extra is the one that gets Xeroxed for everyone else who orders one.

Typical GM move, Tesla would have the thing on DVD-ROM or as a PDF download.

If I needed a copy, I would order it, Xerox it myself and return it as incomplete/defective.


2015 Chevy Impala Service Manual Set
Price: $375.00 In Stock - Reproduction of Original Publication Qty: Pkg Qty: 1 Media: Paper Language: English Item/Part #: GMP15GCI Models and Years Covered Contains Factory Authorized Service information written by General Motors. It contains Diagnostic Information and Procedures, Schematics and Routing Diagrams, Component Locator, Repair Instructions, Description and Operation, Specifications, and Special Tools and equipment. Service information on HVAC, Body & Accessories, Restraints, Steering, Suspension, Driveline/Axle, Brakes, Engine and Transmission/Transaxle.

2015 Crystal Red Impala LTZ V6
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post #26 of (permalink) Old 03-06-2016
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The dealers do not need a paper copy, they have access to it via the internet and can print off what ever pages they need at any given time. The high cost is probably because of the lower volume of paper copies being made. Wish was on DVD ROM for public to buy.
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post #27 of (permalink) Old 02-23-2018
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Quote:
Originally Posted by flnobody View Post
At Helm, they are $375 plus what ever it cost to ship. Plus they now have this note when you go to order it.

"This manual is a digital reprint of the original publication. It is possible that this item will be in loose-leaf format. Any wiring diagrams in the original shop/service manual are NOT reproducible and are no longer available."
I have to call BS on the "not reproducible" claim.
What it should say is "WE are not going to reproduce these. If you want access to this information buy a GM SI subscription." Honest and to-the-point.

Desktop Wide and Long format scanners are almost cheap enough that Joe Sixpack can afford them now.

I've scanned 11.5" x 48" vehicle and electronic equipment wiring diagrams and even small Arch-B blueprints at 600DPI with a Fujitsu Fi7480.

FUJITSU Image Scanner fi-7480 - Fujitsu Global

This one is the next step down and it can still handle 220" long 11.5" wide pages... just not as fast.
fi-7460 Ultra-Compact Departmental Scanner - Fujitsu United States

If you're looking for a cheaper solution. Go one generation back. You only get to scan 11.5" by 34" pages but I bet you can find one for around a grand used and in good shape.
FUJITSU Document Scanner fi-5530C2 - Fujitsu United States

None of the above scanners are much over $2,200 US.

A publishing business should have access to truly stupendous scanner hardware that can handle architectural prints and even larger stuff.

Printing is getting so Joe Sixpack can do it too...

My old Obsolete Okidata C830DTN small business printer is capable of printing 12" x 52" pages. A Panasonic, Xerox, Toshiba, or HP enterprise-class printer would have ZERO issues printing even larger pages, Go ask FedEx Office how large they can print in-house, and those are just large office printers. Helm is a book publisher... I guarantee they have equipment that would make those Xerox document centres look like tinker toys.

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"Speed never killed anyone. Suddenly becoming stationary... that's what gets you." Jeremy Clarkson
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post #28 of (permalink) Old 02-23-2018
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hatzie View Post
Printing is getting so Joe Sixpack can do it too...
So true.

Alas, I work for an employer - an engineering company, no less - and I have to jump thru hoops just to coax a B size (11x17) drawing from one of our printers

Doug

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If your socket set is all the same brand, you might be a city slicker.

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post #29 of (permalink) Old 02-23-2018
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Originally Posted by plano-doug View Post
So true.

Alas, I work for an employer - an engineering company, no less - and I have to jump thru hoops just to coax a B size (11x17) drawing from one of our printers

Doug

.
A lot of the tabloid size printers are still painfully slow inkjets. The ink drys out whether you use it or not and the print heads get crusty with dried ink too... but they're cheap to buy...

There's still only a handful of cheaper laser printers that handle Tabloid/A3.
Arch-B is still difficult to find at all in desktop printers. When I bought it my Oki 830 laser it was the only laser printer that could do Arch-B 12x18.

It's been slow going to get the prices down on marginally larger size laser printers. It looks like it's happening finally.

If you really want a really good A3 laser printer, and don't need color, dig on Evilbay for the heavy old HP 5000 5100 5200 laserjet printers.
The only nasty gotcha is the parallel port interface. I used a CTG USB to LPT adapter.

I have one of the standard Letter and Legal size 4100D laserjet printers to save the expensive toner in my Oki. Both the 11.65" wide 5000 series and the standard 8.5" 4000 series are built like a tank. The HP 61X toner cartridge for the 4100 is rated for 10,000 pages. HP built em to run through a lot more than one cartridge. You can get these 5-20 year-old heavy duty small-business class printers in good serviceable condition for around $300-$500. These were darn expensive printers when new and if kept up will outlast you in a home environment... so I wouldn't feel bad about spending another $100 or even $200 for rollers and other soft parts to get it back to good condition.
The more expensive wear parts specifically the fuser and imaging drum, and even the inexpensive parts like rollers, aren't available for a lot of cheaper printers. They are all still available from HP for these old tanks.
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"Speed never killed anyone. Suddenly becoming stationary... that's what gets you." Jeremy Clarkson

Last edited by hatzie; 02-24-2018 at 11:17 AM.
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