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Agreed, no loyalty anymore! The good news that we have two GM plants plus a parts warehouse. The good news that I pulled into my car wash, while I was waiting noticed the two in front where GM and the next 7 out of 8 were GM also.

But we have seen a huge increase over the last twenty years of the foreign makes.

Pat
Loyalty to a brand is not using your noggin. GM has outsourced a lot of production to China along with Mexico and points further south. I feel no loyalty to an outfit that's taking my dollars out of the country.

The cold hard truth is that Honda, Toyota, and Nissan are just as American made as GM, Chrysler, and Ferd at this point. There's a high probability that there's more American content in those "foreign" brands than the supposedly domestic brands now. The "foreign" brands do lack the UAW content that the big three had in the rust belt... If UAW loyalty is what you're looking for look elsewhere.
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Originally Posted by hatzie View Post
Loyalty to a brand is not using your noggin. GM has outsourced a lot of production to China along with Mexico and points further south. I feel no loyalty to an outfit that's taking my dollars out of the country.

The cold hard truth is that Honda, Toyota, and Nissan are just as American made as GM, Chrysler, and Ferd at this point. There's a high probability that there's more American content in those "foreign" brands than the supposedly domestic brands now. The "foreign" brands do lack the UAW content that the big three had in the rust belt... If UAW loyalty is what you're looking for look elsewhere.
It's a global world no doubt!

But I will beg to differ on your on your end results. Even though any and all makes are made aboard. The american companies have the overall profits show up here in the United states and that in turn supplies a greater tax base for the country!

Agreed that a foreign make being made here is way better than being made over seas and provides jobs for americans and as you pointed out non union.

I am sorry for thinking of america! I try to buy american based products whenever possible! We have 5 GM products in garages or the drive. We have all whirlpool products, we have lazy boy furniture and many other brands also.

My loyalty is to the people making the cars here in the Lansing area for providing the 10 spin off jobs for each worker, plus the retirees.

In my fantasy world, if everyone bought american based products we would go back to everyone having decent paying jobs(and not having $15.00/hr fast food workers) and huge tax base in order to fix the crumbling infrastructure that we suffer from, on a daily basis driving on our roads.

If this is not using my noggin (FYI was condescending try to choose your words more wisely ) then please remove my brains!

In closing, before someone questions me as being a foreigner hater, my wife is from Europe and I am 50% asian.

Pat
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^^Nicely said - and I couldn't agree more. I'll be damned if I *ever* own a car from a foreign company as long as there are American companies making cars.

Unfortunately, becuase of people buying foreign cars, GM and other American car companies have had to ship jobs to other countries and even use inferior-quality parts made in other countries in order to remain competitive. The American car industry was a great industry before people started buying foreign cars to save a buck.

Sometimes, doing the right thing (buying from an American car company) isn't always the easiest or cheapest thing to do, but it's the right thing to do! In my opinion, of course. :-)
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Boy you guys are naive. No way in hell they pay taxes to the IRS on profits outside this country. The outside the US profits never will be brought into our nation. It costs too much with no benefit to the company. They don't pay taxes on those profits. Nor should they.

They all have North American corporations and several Rest Of World corporate entities to segregate the outside the US profits from the US operations. This is so the IRS, Revenue Canada, Her Majesty's Revenue and Customs, etc don't get more than is due them.

NISSAN has at least NISSAN North America and NISSAN in Japan. Toyota and Honda are the same deal. Subaru is a subsidiary of the massive multinational company called Fuji Heavy Industries. Subaru North America isn't the same as Subaru Japan.

There's VWOA and VAG... VWOA has its' headquarters in the US. VAG is in Germany. They also have an entity in China and one in South America and probably more.

Same deal as Buger King, Wendys', and Tim Horton setting up several corporations that are separate from the US in Canadia and Europe and Asia and...

Our fine honest politicians , there's an oxymoron, were demonizing this activity about a decade ago because they look at any money they haven't scarfed up already as a loan from their benevolence to the serfs. Blank them and the corrupt horse they rode in on.
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Tax base growth will do NOTHING till spending gets under control. Tax receipts are UP but spending is up more so debt keeps going up more. BOTH sides feed this problem. Just yesterday a bill was signed that deliberately makes problems worse.

Don't get me wrong we are better off with a strong tax base than with laws that encourage hiding every dime, and that is what happens when tax rates spike upwards. if you look at the numbers tax receipts vary far less than the rates, when the tax rate gets stupidly high companies and rich folks just put more effort into sheltering their money.

There are important lessons to be learned in current events but the media wont allow the truth.
Socialism has lead to the average Venezuelan to lose 24lbs and it isn't because they have more time to get to the gym.
Attacking business will make them build elsewhere, and this can be overseas.....
High speed rail is a pipe dream, if you can't link 2 cities, you aren't going to be able to link a thousand all across the country.
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Socialism has lead to the average Venezuelan to lose 24lbs and it isn't because they have more time to get to the gym.
No, not really. That has more to due with greed than Socialism. Socialism is intended to utilize the vast resources of the people to eliminate things like inequality, hunger and the like. In the U.S. we have LOTS of socialism programs that are very successful.

I am not advocating for Socialism, but the truth is aspects of Socialism do work. Its the same for Capitalism. The reality is neither works well on their own merits. The only ideology that has worked so far is eliminating the tyrannical reign of government over its people.

Getting back to the subject..GM is its own worst enemy. They are notorious for pulling successful lines and then bringing them back at a later date. I dont like it, but on the bright side maybe when the Impala returns it will have a 6.2L, RWD option or it could be based off the now defunct Volt platform. Who knows.
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Socialism works til they run out of OPM. As the level of government funding rises so does corruption. A wealthy politician that got that way after entering office is a corrupt lying thief.

If the failures in Europe and South America don't convince people that Socialism is a dismal failure then they need to experience the wonderful things socialism can bring right here at home... unfortunately it's really hard to roll it back once you screw up that badly.

The Vampire management at GM is assuming they will get another bailout when the stuff hits the spinning multi-wing airfoil again due to their continued gross mismanagement.
If our government isn't brought to heel by the electorate GM etc will get yet another bailout instead of failing from their gross mismanagement.

The UAW employees at GM represent well under the 6.4% of total non-government unionized workers. This means that a bailout is using the taxes of 93.6% of the nation to subsidize 6.4%... But that's "fair"...

The initial failures will hurt for a short while. Better run companies that startup and step up to fill the void left by the vampiric failures will actually make the economy stronger than letting the failures continue to suck the lifeblood out of our economy through government intervention and higher taxes to pay for their foolish decisions.

If we're not careful there will not be an American car industry just like there is no longer a British car industry.
www.youtube.com/watch?v=b9ztUlve9jc
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The fact Socialism is seen as anything but lipstick on the communist pig is a terrible demonstration of the raging failure of our education system.

As said, eventually you run out of other people's money, and when they know you are going to take it there is either no incentive to apply one's self enough to make much or it is very well hidden.

Some social safety nets are not socialism.

Look at the politician that is pushing socialism the hardest, one of her own party mates had to school the economics major on how they can't re appropriate the $3b in tax incentives given to Amazon because that money doesn't exist....... I am not saying Amazon deserves those incentives, I am saying people elected an "economics major" that couldn't pass an elementary school math test.

I could be OK with some "corporate welfare" for industries like farming, but the gross mismanagement of companies like GM should not be rewarded. At the same time though we need to protect them from being destroyed from the outside. If China is allowed they would have continued to undercut all our manufacturing till we were completely dependent.

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I am not saying Amazon deserves those incentives, I am saying people elected an "economics major" that couldn't pass an elementary school math test.


Out of curiosity, I looked up her academic credentials. According to this site , she received a BA from Boston University with a double major in Economics and International Relations.

When I see BA and Econ in the same sentence, it makes me think she has the non-math version of a math-intensive degree

Doug

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Originally Posted by jtrosky View Post
Oh - a few other things..

1. The battery is in the trunk!!
2. No spare tire at all - just an air compressor with some kind of sealant that it adds.
3. When I opened the hood, I was like "why is the serpentine belt on the front of the engine??". Been so long since I had a car where the engine wasn't sideways!! :-)

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Some more interesting notes about the 2018 Challenger GT (AWD) that I bought:

1. It is NOT direct-injected! I just assumed that almost all new cars were direct-injected - especially a muscle/sports car... WRONG! Interestingly, even with the same size engine (3.6L), it still generates 305 horsepower even without direct injection (same horsepower as the 3.6L in my 2012 Impala, which does use direct-injection).

2. It has *true* dual-exhaust, which I thought was interesting for a V6. :-)

3. No power steering pump - it has fully-electric power steering (a first for me).

4. No transmission fluid dipstick, which I hate (also a first for me).

I've driven this thing back and forth to Pittsburgh a few times already (~ 4.5 hours each way) due to the passing of my Mother, unfortunately, and I'm very impressed with the ride quality. It's as quiet inside as my Buick LaCrosse was! They must use a TON of sound-deadener in this car (maybe part of the reason why it's so damn heavy!). :-) I've even had (4) full-sized adults in the car and everyone is VERY comfortable, which is almost unheard-of with a sports/muscle car. Try doing that with a Mustang or a Camaro! :-)

Just some random thoughts to try and get this thread off of the politics talk. :-)
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So Chrysler is actually finally stepping up. Will wonders never cease.
They've always seemed to be several steps behind in fit and finish and quality of materials. Barely a step above AMC in the 70's & 80's. It almost killed them off. This is coming from someone that owns two Dodge vehicles from the 60's and likes them. I can't say I loved the build quality of my 1969 Polara or my 1967 pickup but I have most of the bugs worked out of them now.
Even three or four years ago the interior of the brand new (300 miles on the clock) Charger RT V8 I rented in Honolulu was hard plastics and it squeaked and rattled. Power was nice and it was firmly planted on the highway but the fit and finish was not good.

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End of the Impala?

I just heard that they are delaying the closure of the Detroit-Hamtramck plant and will continue production of the Impala and the CT6 until January 2020. Production of the Volt and LaCrosse ended last month.


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https://www.autonews.com/manufacturi...put-early-2020

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It's gotten really stupid, some of the "reasons" I have seen...

You can't fix stupid, seems the more car manufacturers have tried to fix stupid...
They've done so by adding technological advances, but it hasn't fixed stupid.
Instead it has simply created a whole new set of problems.
And yet the problems affect specifically the same group who were befuddled before the technological advances took place.

Look, if you can't drive a car there's nothing they can do.

Oh but wait, the self-driving car will fix that!

Yeah RIGHT IT WILL!
ROFLMAOLOL

I can't wait...
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 1970cs View Post
It's a global world no doubt!

But I will beg to differ on your on your end results. Even though any and all makes are made aboard. The american companies have the overall profits show up here in the United states and that in turn supplies a greater tax base for the country!

Agreed that a foreign make being made here is way better than being made over seas and provides jobs for americans and as you pointed out non union.

I am sorry for thinking of america! I try to buy american based products whenever possible! We have 5 GM products in garages or the drive. We have all whirlpool products, we have lazy boy furniture and many other brands also.

My loyalty is to the people making the cars here in the Lansing area for providing the 10 spin off jobs for each worker, plus the retirees.

In my fantasy world, if everyone bought american based products we would go back to everyone having decent paying jobs(and not having $15.00/hr fast food workers) and huge tax base in order to fix the crumbling infrastructure that we suffer from, on a daily basis driving on our roads.

If this is not using my noggin (FYI was condescending try to choose your words more wisely ) then please remove my brains!

In closing, before someone questions me as being a foreigner hater, my wife is from Europe and I am 50% asian.

Pat
"I am sorry for thinking of america!" > America
"I try to buy american..." > American
And you capitalize "Lansing" and "Europe"
"asian" > Asian
Come on now Pat!
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