2004 Ignition Lock Broke/Drilled/Replaced Security Bypassed???? - Chevy Impala Forums
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post #1 of (permalink) Old 06-11-2018 Thread Starter
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2004 Ignition Lock Broke/Drilled/Replaced Security Bypassed????

Hi there,

I'm new to the forums and I came with a question. I searched the previous postings and found no answer to my specific problem.

My ignition lock seized up and I had to drill it out. I have since replaced the lock and performed the PASSLOCK bypass (soldering in resistors to match the previous lock) Doing this made the security light stop blinking entirely. Now the car just won't crank.

Before resorting to cutting into the electrical system, I attempted the 30 minute ignition relearning procedure to no avail. The security light would never stop blinking every 3 seconds or so. I felt pretty accomplished when my resistors did the trick, but I am defeated again now that the car still refuses to crank.

As I am typing this, the ignition is in the RUN position, in an attempt to convince it to start one last time.
(EDIT: It did not start.)

Any advice would be appreciated. Has anyone else experienced the security light turning off and still being unable to crank?

Thanks,
Joe

Last edited by Joseph Michael; 06-11-2018 at 11:19 PM.
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post #2 of (permalink) Old 06-13-2018
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I do believe the dealer has to code the new ignition to the computer, thats how I've always done it with no issues
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post #3 of (permalink) Old 06-13-2018
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joseph Michael View Post
Hi there,

I'm new to the forums and I came with a question. I searched the previous postings and found no answer to my specific problem.

My ignition lock seized up and I had to drill it out. I have since replaced the lock and performed the PASSLOCK bypass (soldering in resistors to match the previous lock) Doing this made the security light stop blinking entirely. Now the car just won't crank.

Before resorting to cutting into the electrical system, I attempted the 30 minute ignition relearning procedure to no avail. The security light would never stop blinking every 3 seconds or so. I felt pretty accomplished when my resistors did the trick, but I am defeated again now that the car still refuses to crank.

As I am typing this, the ignition is in the RUN position, in an attempt to convince it to start one last time.
(EDIT: It did not start.)

Any advice would be appreciated. Has anyone else experienced the security light turning off and still being unable to crank?

Thanks,
Joe
On these ignition setups (2004), a Hall effect sensor in the cylinder detects the presence (or absence) of the key. There's a 3-wire cable to the BCM from that sensor. Having swapped a new cylinder in, you will recall dealing with the little sensor just below it.

One problem with this system is that the connector at the BCM could develop enough added resistance, presumably due to galvanic corrosion, that the SECURITY system would alert, blinking the SECURITY message on instrument cluster, and preventing the starter from cranking.

It's not clear from your post whether the blinking has stopped. If so, then I'd look at the wiring on the ignition switch and check the wire for the starter. Also check the starter relay under the hood. And lastly, check the wire on the starter solenoid. One other thought - make sure you have good power to the ignition switch - perhaps you popped a fuse while installing the new cylinder.

If the blinking has not stopped, the procedure in the TSB (for the no-crank condition / SECURITY light) was to clean the contacts on the BCM connectors. The prescribed way of doing that is to simply remove and re-insert each of the three BCM connectors a few times (with the battery disconnected). Having bypassed the sensor, you may then need to do the re-learn again.

HTH.

Doug

.

Last edited by plano-doug; 06-13-2018 at 05:23 PM.
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post #4 of (permalink) Old 06-13-2018 Thread Starter
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Back with results

Quote:
Originally Posted by plano-doug View Post
I'd look at the wiring on the ignition switch and check the wire for the starter. Also check the starter relay under the hood. And lastly, check the wire on the starter solenoid. One other thought - make sure you have good power to the ignition switch - perhaps you popped a fuse while installing the new cylinder.

.
Hi Doug,

Thank you for your thoughtful and knowledgeable response! I have indeed managed to get the security light to stop blinking with 2.5K ohms of resistance (installed between the black wire and the yellow wire leading to the BCM) as measured from the previous lock cylinder. I have checked the connections on the BCM and they look clean.

I unplugged the connectors to the ignition switch and measured 10-12 volts on a few of the wires.

All the wires leading to the starter bolts are tight. The top bolt measures 11.5v constantly, but drops to about 11.2(ish) when attempting to crank. The bottom bolt never becomes energized, and the solenoid never clicks when attempting to crank.

Looking at the fuse and relay box, I checked the relevant sounding fuses (they were good) and also pulled the crank relay:

https://imgur.com/b8kzR7Y

and the ignition relay:

https://imgur.com/wLoWstB

The images notate the bottom connection point has a constant 11-12v while the top connection point has zero, then goes to 11-12v when cranking. Not sure if that helps you. I don't hear either relay clicking when cranking. I hear another relay click though, maybe the fuel relay?

Where would you look next?


Again, thank you for you help.
-Joe
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post #5 of (permalink) Old 06-14-2018
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joseph Michael View Post
Hi Doug,

Thank you for your thoughtful and knowledgeable response! I have indeed managed to get the security light to stop blinking with 2.5K ohms of resistance (installed between the black wire and the yellow wire leading to the BCM) as measured from the previous lock cylinder. I have checked the connections on the BCM and they look clean.

I unplugged the connectors to the ignition switch and measured 10-12 volts on a few of the wires.

All the wires leading to the starter bolts are tight. The top bolt measures 11.5v constantly, but drops to about 11.2(ish) when attempting to crank. The bottom bolt never becomes energized, and the solenoid never clicks when attempting to crank.

Looking at the fuse and relay box, I checked the relevant sounding fuses (they were good) and also pulled the crank relay:

https://imgur.com/b8kzR7Y

and the ignition relay:

https://imgur.com/wLoWstB

The images notate the bottom connection point has a constant 11-12v while the top connection point has zero, then goes to 11-12v when cranking. Not sure if that helps you. I don't hear either relay clicking when cranking. I hear another relay click though, maybe the fuel relay?

Where would you look next?


Again, thank you for you help.
-Joe
Hi, Joe,

It sounds like you need to ring out the starter wiring starting at the ignition switch. You want to see ~+12V on the starter wire out of the ignition switch when the key is turned to crank. I've attached a drawing. It's for a 2002, but the wiring should be the same on a 2004.

Anyway, you want to probe the signal along the path. During crank, you should see +12V at the fuse in the junction block (C1-D3 and C1-E3). Make sure that fuse is good. Then look for 12V at the PCM C2-23. In turn, the PCM signals crank by pulling the relay coil to ground in the underhood junction block, pin C10. If the relay isn't closing, then either the PCM is not signaling it, or there's a loss of connection between the PCM and the relay. You can probe the PCM at C2-76 to see if it goes low (0) when the key it turned to crank.

If C2-76 is not going low, either the PCM is bad, or maybe the BCM is sending a message to the PCM to not start because perhaps it thinks there's a security issue.

Anyway, you get the idea to follow the path from the ignition to the fuse panel / junction block to the PCM and so forth until you see a mismatch between the input and output on one of these boxes/devices.

Hopefully it will be something simple like a bad fuse or bad relay.

HTH.

Doug

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Question

Quote:
Originally Posted by plano-doug View Post
Hi, Joe,

It sounds like you need to ring out the starter wiring starting at the ignition switch. You want to see ~+12V on the starter wire out of the ignition switch when the key is turned to crank. I've attached a drawing. It's for a 2002, but the wiring should be the same on a 2004.

Anyway, you want to probe the signal along the path. During crank, you should see +12V at the fuse in the junction block (C1-D3 and C1-E3). Make sure that fuse is good. Then look for 12V at the PCM C2-23. In turn, the PCM signals crank by pulling the relay coil to ground in the underhood junction block, pin C10. If the relay isn't closing, then either the PCM is not signaling it, or there's a loss of connection between the PCM and the relay. You can probe the PCM at C2-76 to see if it goes low (0) when the key it turned to crank.

If C2-76 is not going low, either the PCM is bad, or maybe the BCM is sending a message to the PCM to not start because perhaps it thinks there's a security issue.

Anyway, you get the idea to follow the path from the ignition to the fuse panel / junction block to the PCM and so forth until you see a mismatch between the input and output on one of these boxes/devices.

Hopefully it will be something simple like a bad fuse or bad relay.

HTH.

Doug

.
Hi Doug,

Once again,

Thanks so much for your thoughtful reply!

I started out testing right at the ignition switch and using the wiring diagram, determined that the YELLOW wire was the crank wire. This wire sees no voltage when the key is OFF, ON, or in CRANK.

https://imgur.com/a/H509QVc

With no power here, I'm thinking the rest of the line should be dead as well. Also, I am not very good at following the diagram to find the right points to test... If you think they are worth probing, could you give me slightly more detailed instructions for where to look? Are the points I should test labeled in reality as they are labeled in the diagram?

Thanks again,
Joe
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post #7 of (permalink) Old 06-20-2018
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joseph Michael View Post
I started out testing right at the ignition switch and using the wiring diagram, determined that the YELLOW wire was the crank wire. This wire sees no voltage when the key is OFF, ON, or in CRANK.

https://imgur.com/a/H509QVc

With no power here, I'm thinking the rest of the line should be dead as well. Also, I am not very good at following the diagram to find the right points to test... If you think they are worth probing, could you give me slightly more detailed instructions for where to look? Are the points I should test labeled in reality as they are labeled in the diagram?
Hi, Joe,

I finally found a suitable drawing showing the two red wires going into the ignition switch and which one supplies the yellow out. The red wire on connector C1, pin A should have 12V on it. It is supplied by the bottom underhood fuse box, IGN SW FUSE 60A.

If you do not have 12V at C1-A, then check that fuse.

If you do have 12V at C1-A, but during crank, no 12V on the yellow wire, C1-B, then I'd say you have a bad ignition switch.

Is it possible you damaged it during the replacement of the lock cylinder? Or maybe one of the connectors is not fully seated in the switch?

Regardless of cause, if you have 12V in, you should have 12V out during crank.

One other test to try is to probe C1-A while you are cranking. If it drops more than ~2.5V during crank, there may be a bad connection (corrosion) upstream, or a bad battery.

PM me your email addy and I'll send you this other drawing I have.

HTH.

Doug

.
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Last edited by plano-doug; 06-20-2018 at 09:03 AM.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by plano-doug View Post
Hi, Joe,

I finally found a suitable drawing showing the two red wires going into the ignition switch and which one supplies the yellow out. The red wire on connector C1, pin A should have 12V on it. It is supplied by the bottom underhood fuse box, IGN SW FUSE 60A.

If you do not have 12V at C1-A, then check that fuse.

If you do have 12V at C1-A, but during crank, no 12V on the yellow wire, C1-B, then I'd say you have a bad ignition switch.

Is it possible you damaged it during the replacement of the lock cylinder? Or maybe one of the connectors is not fully seated in the switch?

Regardless of cause, if you have 12V in, you should have 12V out during crank.

One other test to try is to probe C1-A while you are cranking. If it drops more than ~2.5V during crank, there may be a bad connection (corrosion) upstream, or a bad battery.

PM me your email addy and I'll send you this other drawing I have.

HTH.

Doug

.
Hey again Doug, thanks for the email.
I went out again today and checked my wires.
Coming into the ignition switch is a red wire that is next to (and in the same connector as) the yellow wire. That red wire shows 12v. In the second connector there are 2 other red wires. One shows 12v and the other has about 9v. I'm thinking the one in the same connector is the one I'm looking for though.

Before crank, the yellow wire shows 10mV and during crank that moves up to only 15mV. This sounds like a bad ignition switch. I have now removed the unit from the car and tested for conductivity between the two posts shown in this image:
https://imgur.com/dOjiA23

Am I right to expect conductivity when the key is turned to crank?

Do you interpret this to mean that my switch is bad?

Thanks, Joe
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post #9 of (permalink) Old 06-23-2018
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joseph Michael View Post
Hey again Doug, thanks for the email.
I went out again today and checked my wires.
Coming into the ignition switch is a red wire that is next to (and in the same connector as) the yellow wire. That red wire shows 12v. In the second connector there are 2 other red wires. One shows 12v and the other has about 9v. I'm thinking the one in the same connector is the one I'm looking for though.
When you see 9V on the pink, is that during crank? Or just with the key at ON?

Quote:
Before crank, the yellow wire shows 10mV and during crank that moves up to only 15mV. This sounds like a bad ignition switch. I have now removed the unit from the car and tested for conductivity between the two posts shown in this image:
https://imgur.com/dOjiA23
Am I right to expect conductivity when the key is turned to crank?
Yes, with a properly connected ohm-meter, I'd expect around 0.1 ohms.

Quote:
Do you interpret this to mean that my switch is bad?
Connector C2 should have 3 big wires and one small one:

PIN A: RED
PIN B: PNK
PIN C: BRN
PIN E: BLK/WHT (small wire)

I recall, from your earlier pic, that there was a wire that was sorta red - not as red as the other two - I'm assuming it's supposed to be the pink one. Looking at that pic, it's on C2-B, which agrees with the list above.

That you're only seeing 9V on that concerns me. It should be at the same voltage as the red wire next to it. It may be the red is dropping some during crank, and hence the pink will drop with it, but, as long as the key is at ON or crank, you should see the voltage on those two pins.

That you're seeing 15mV on the yellow during crank seems to indicate a bad switch. Were you able to probe the red wire at C1-A during crank to make sure it's staying up and not dropping way down during crank? This will help confirm it's the switch and not some other issue upstream.

My thinking is to replace the switch, and that should solve the cranking issue. And hopefully it will also pull up the voltage on the pink wire to ~12V during ON / crank.

HTH.

Doug

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DOUG!!!
You are amazing!

I checked the pink wire C2-B and (after charging my drained battery) it shows 12v.
I checked the yellow CRANK wire and again got 15 mV during crank.
I jammed a wire into the back of the C1 red wire connector and touched it to the yellow wire while cranking and THE CAR STARTED AND RUNS!!!

Now I just need to buy a replacement ignition switch and put it back together.

Doug, you have genuinely "made" my whole month.
Thank you, thank you, thank you. 100 times over, thank you!

-Joe
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joseph Michael View Post
DOUG!!!
You are amazing!

I checked the pink wire C2-B and (after charging my drained battery) it shows 12v.
I checked the yellow CRANK wire and again got 15 mV during crank.
I jammed a wire into the back of the C1 red wire connector and touched it to the yellow wire while cranking and THE CAR STARTED AND RUNS!!!

Now I just need to buy a replacement ignition switch and put it back together.

Doug, you have genuinely "made" my whole month.
Thank you, thank you, thank you. 100 times over, thank you!

-Joe
That's good to hear, Joe. Glad to know it's going well.

Let us know how the switch replacement works out.

Doug

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