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post #1 of (permalink) Old 05-13-2017 Thread Starter
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Police Brake Upgrade Completed

It's been a long road, researching, planning, buying, and now completing the work, but the results are good, and the job didn't go too bad.





Here are the 2 different caliper brackets on their sides, note how the black painted ones (Cop) are about 1/2" greater distance between threaded mounting holes and the actually caliper mounting holes, to account for the nearly 1" greater diameter of the cop rotors, more noticeable on the right side of the brackets in the picture. That's the end of a grease gun I used to regrease the sliding pin bushings, and 1 of a pair of stainless caliper hanging bracket from Amazon, $10Prime.









Here are the 2 different caliper brackets side by side. Note the cast in numbers, 16" on the stock brackets and 17" on the cop brackets. I don't know what the numbers exactly refer to because the cop rotors are 12.7", but for IDing the brackets quickly, look for these casting numbers to see which is which.




A Cop caliper, with it's 17" casting ID number, again, I have no idea what it refers to, because the rotors are under 13", but 17" means the cop ones, as both calipers and brackets had this number on them.





A rotor comparison. The Raybestos Cop rotors came painted black in the hat, front and back. I painted the calipers and brackets in PPG acrylic urethane. Note the almost imperceptible wear on the stock rotors. After I hit about 30K miles, I'd hit them hard once, from 70 to stop on the highway, like several times every day of the work week, ,and they will be warped every time you hit the breaks for the rest of the trip home. Next morning, they are parallel and stop perfectly when cold. Minimal wear on the pads too. 44K miles, 98% of it while cruise set on the highway.




Job completed, IronX job done on the wheels. Dirty car, Saturday car wash cancelled due to brake job. I did IronX the whole car, horizontal surfaces anyway, after the brake job. I'll do the rears, red paint on the calipers, black on the rotors, on Memorial Weekend.


Last edited by Carbide; 05-13-2017 at 07:41 PM.
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A Cop caliper, with it's 17" casting ID number, again, I have no idea what it refers to, because the rotors are under 13", but 17" means the cop ones, as both calipers and brackets had this number on them.
The 17" refers to the minimum wheel size I believe. When I did this upgrade I noticed the numbers too, My old calipers have a 16" on them and the new ones have 17" and now the compact 16" spare wheel will not fit up front.



also, I just noticed that you have the 18" wheels, I wish I would of had them when I did this upgrade because I would have went with the better 4 piston calipers to make use of all the rotor surface.
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Last edited by IMSITTINGINYOURCHAIR; 05-15-2017 at 01:45 AM. Reason: added info
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Looks good. No clue about the 17, above post sounds logical.

What is the cost factor when compared to doing say something like this Power Stop Performance Disc Brake Kit KC5504 - Read Reviews on Power Stop #KC5504 , and do you expect better performance?

All I have done with ours is replace the front pads with duralast, think they were the cmax but don't remember off the top of my head.
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@Carbide - I'm so jealous! I would love to get this done to my 2012, but not sure I can tackle it myself. Is there any way that you could put together a details list of parts, part numbers, costs, etc? If I knew I could get all of the correct parts, maybe I'll just take them to a shop and have them do the work. I hate the stock front rotor size - it's just too small for the car.

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Originally Posted by IMSITTINGINYOURCHAIR View Post
The 17" refers to the minimum wheel size I believe. When I did this upgrade I noticed the numbers too, My old calipers have a 16" on them and the new ones have 17" and now the compact 16" spare wheel will not fit up front.



also, I just noticed that you have the 18" wheels, I wish I would of had them when I did this upgrade because I would have went with the better 4 piston calipers to make use of all the rotor surface.
I wasn't aware there was a 4 piston caliper; but that might be the GXP aluminum calipers. When I saw the GM price for new ones, I decided the cast irons ones were good enough. The Cop caliper seems identical to the retail version, except for the mounting hole spacing for the slide pins. Same piston size, same numbers on the pistons.

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Originally Posted by 12 lt View Post
Looks good. No clue about the 17, above post sounds logical.

What is the cost factor when compared to doing say something like this Power Stop Performance Disc Brake Kit KC5504 - Read Reviews on Power Stop #KC5504 , and do you expect better performance?

All I have done with ours is replace the front pads with duralast, think they were the cmax but don't remember off the top of my head.
The pads don't wear much, nor do the rotors, but the rotors warp after they get hot with more than about 30K miles on them.

I don't have any experience with brake kit alternatives, it's a choice you'll have to make for yourself.

I bought wisely, but the total cost I'm oblivious to.


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Originally Posted by jtrosky View Post
@Carbide - I'm so jealous! I would love to get this done to my 2012, but not sure I can tackle it myself. Is there any way that you could put together a details list of parts, part numbers, costs, etc? If I knew I could get all of the correct parts, maybe I'll just take them to a shop and have them do the work. I hate the stock front rotor size - it's just too small for the car.

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I planned on adding all my notes on part numbers, source and cost.

I treated myself to a pleasure cruise and a nice dinner out Sunday, and I have stuff to do today after work, so it's probably going to be Tuesday night before I can add that stuff to the thread.

Rocked the Rosen install hard on that Sunday drive.
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I shopped each part number around all the places I could think of to find the best deal at the time I ordered that part(s). You might to do better, but if you wait awhile, then all the prices you find will probably be higher. Generally, my parts cost is shipping included, or sans shipping if it was Amazon, 'cause I'm a Prime mofo.

Start a Word file with your desired parts numbers, set a goal on acquiring one or a pair of parts at a time, and pull the trigger on the best price you find for that segment of the list.

THIS LIST IS FOR A 2016 IMPALA LIMITED. REAR BRAKE CODE FOR EARLIER NON LEVER REAR BRAKES IS ATD698P.

I HAVE A SET OF RAYBESTOS REAR POLICE PADS FOR OLDER STYLE CALIPERS FOR SALE-CHEAP. HIT ME UP. THEY ARE COMPATIBLE WITH OEM/STOCK CALIPERS AND ROTORS.

Police spec rotors and pads have a different part number than OEM/stock. Police rear parts are interchangeable with OEM/stock.

Front Police spec rotors, calipers and and caliper mounting brackets are Police Specific, and do not interchange. The pads do, they just have a better compound.

Le Menu:

(2) Req’d Caliper Brackets ‘12-‘13 Police
25983766
GM Parts Direct $41.51 (ea) Ordered GM Parts Direct Flow Chevrolet 12/29/16 $94.96

(1) Req’d Right Front Caliper ‘12-‘13 Police
25983763
Amazon $99.98 (ea) Ordered Below Amazon

(1) Req’d Left Front Caliper ‘12-‘13 Police
25983762
Amazon $76.36 (ea) Ordered L and R Amazon 12/29/16 $186.92

(2) Raybestos Front Rotors Police 580387 Ordered Rock Auto 2/15/17 159.96 Shipping was 21.98!

(2) Raybestos Rear Rotors Police 581033 (27.79 ea)Ordered Rock Auto 2/12/17 123.35 Shipping was 19.98!

(1) Req’d Raybestos Police Rear Brake Pad Kit ATD999P
Ordered Rock Auto 2/12/17 $49.78

(1) Req’d Raybestos Police Front Brake Pad Kit ATD1159P
Amazon $47.37 Ordered Amazon 12/28/16 $47.37

Just in case for the install, and for down the road if install had no issues:

(2) Caliper Rear Guide Pin Carlson H5092 (7.04 ea) Ordered Rock Auto 4/1/17 19.37 Shipping was 5.99!



(2) Caliper Front Guide Pin Carlson 14179 (5.60 ea)Ordered Rock Auto 4/1/17
Part of another order so no total or shipping.

Someone else can total that, I have no desire to do so.

I did not use the caliper pins, but I think I will at the next brake job.

I got boot kits front and rear, and extra 'clips'- the sliding guides front and rear. I may go back in and replace them and relube the pads to see how long the cop stuff will last if taken care off.

I've done brakes a bunch of time on my '10 Impala, and have done this to hopefully reduce the cost and frequency. If not, at least the calipers are red now.
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I have been remiss to not include the mandatory caliper fitting copper washer part numbers and price.

I'm not allowing myself to have any Oreos tonight for my omission.

GM #21012386 .

I used (2), one under the fitting for each caliper; I did not remove the banjo bolts from the banjo fittings, I just shook off the old washer from the bolt where it sat under the fitting, slid a new one on, and tightened with a 10MM socket/ratchet.

DO NOT ATTEMPT TO BUY THESE ONLINE!

Just go to a dealer, give them the part number, buy an extra one just in case you lose or damage one, and you'll be miles ahead of trying to do this thru the mail. They'll overcharge you, then you pay for shipping, when you can just drive by ANY GM dealer, walk to the counter, give them the number, ask for 3, and walk out with them in hand for about 4 bucks.

DO NOT ATTEMPT TO REUSE THE CALIPER FITTING COPPER WASHERS!

Oreos, tomorrow.
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Last edited by donmateo; 05-30-2017 at 06:32 AM.
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I left out a digit in the previous post and I can't edit; correct 8 digit number is 21012386.

I'm old, feeble minded, Oreo deficient, and I rode the short bus to school because I always ate the note they pinned on my coat.
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What I did on my Spring Vacation.

On the first day I got up, then I went outside, and worked on the car.

Expected 3 day job done in 2.

Disassemble, clean, tape, prime, paint, de-tape, install rotors, install painted caliper brackets, install pads, and painted calipers.



Stock caliper brackets pre-paint. This is why I painted them; they look ugly as is.



Stock Rear Rotors, nearly zero wear.



I bought this so I'm ready for any other rear disc job that ever comes up.
As it were, the basic t-handle tool without any adapter was all I needed to adjust the rear caliper pistons back into the caliper, but man was it worth the price to not have to fvck around with it.




Painted ugly axle face.



70% chance of rain, parts painted in morning were handleable by early afternoon, so I threw it together instead of waiting another day. The plan was assemble on Monday. Then it never rained. Tired as a mo fo.



Touched up trailing arms, struts, Moog end links.





Shake down ride to the Brewery and a stop at the Food Truck for Brisket sandwich, Southern Creamed Corn, and Jalapeno/Cilantro Cole Slaw, all of which wound up being On The House. $10 tip. We talked cars while I put my hands sequentially at every vertebrae between L5 and my shoulder blades and bent backwards to pop each one back into place so I could stand straight again.

Business was dead, they hooked me up for free, and then they went inside and drank.

Looks better, stops well.

very satisfied

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Last edited by Carbide; 05-28-2017 at 06:19 PM.
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They look really good. Tell us what you used for paint, and what you put under it, if anything.

I know there are some exotic coatings out there nowadays for high heat apps like this.

Doug

.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Carbide View Post
What I did on my Spring Vacation.

On the first day I got up, then I went outside, and worked on the car.

Expected 3 day job done in 2.

Disassemble, clean, tape, prime, paint, de-tape, install rotors, install painted caliper brackets, install pads, and painted calipers.



Stock caliper brackets pre-paint. This is why I painted them; they look ugly as is.



Stock Rear Rotors, nearly zero wear.



I bought this so I'm ready for any other rear disc job that ever comes up.
As it were, the basic t-handle tool without any adapter was all I needed to adjust the rear caliper pistons back into the caliper, but man was it worth the price to not have to fvck around with it.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...?ie=UTF8&psc=1

Painted ugly axle face.



70% chance of rain, parts painted in morning were handleable by early afternoon, so I threw it together instead of waiting another day. The plan was assemble on Monday. Then it never rained. Tired as a mo fo.



Touched up trailing arms, struts, Moog end links.





Shake down ride to the Brewery and a stop at the Food Truck for Brisket sandwich, Southern Creamed Corn, and Jalapeno/Cilantro Cole Slaw, all of which wound up being On The House. $10 tip. We talked cars while I put my hands sequentially at every vertebrae between L5 and my shoulder blades and bent backwards to pop each one back into place so I could stand straight again.

Business was dead, they hooked me up for free, and then they went inside and drank.

Looks better, stops well.

very satisfied

After seeing this I'm confidant in saying, My car desperately needs to have all this and maybe more done!

This is the standard of car care I need to learn to uphold... it looks great @Carbide!

As it is right now my struts are the worst part, Guess I know what I'm doing on days off!

Though considering the shape I remember my rear struts being in... I'm half ready to believe a needle scaler would struggle to get the job done! (Seriously though that tool is insane!).

It'll be interesting though, might not be able to (Want to) deal with it anyways because of the after-market wheels I got... little bit more tedious + I'm getting kinda sick of tossin' centering rings.

So many choices...Keep it up!!
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Bunch o' drunks...
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Originally Posted by plano-doug View Post
They look really good. Tell us what you used for paint, and what you put under it, if anything.

I know there are some exotic coatings out there nowadays for high heat apps like this.

Doug

I was turned onto the paint and method by the guy who built a motor for me, and having the primer and paint, decided to just use what I had, to use it up before it went bad. I don't recommend going out to buy what I used, but me already having it, it seemed sane enough to use it and see how it lasts. The front looks as good as when I installed them, and they have gotten hot a few times already. Even if they fade, it will look better than a brake dust covering bare metal like stock.

The primer and paint are by PPG; the primer is a self-etching primer that does not need to be sanded prior to painting. It is made for covering bare metal and it 'etches' into the metal for bonding, whereas some primers just cover. Perfect for painting a cast iron big block and aluminum heads. The paint is acrylic urethane 'Concept', and is being or has been discontinued. Having the red and some catalyst and the primer and catalyst already, I did have to buy the black, and it was not cheap, but if I didn't already have all the other items, I would have had to spend big to get all the items of some other paint system. This is not 'polyurethane' like Imron, similar but different.

I used 69 cent 1" wood handled foam brushes from Home Depot, for primer and paint. They work better than the more expensive plastic handled brand name one I tried from Lowes for the front calipers. All I had left from the motor paint job was 2" Home Depot foam brushes, and that wasn't going to cut it on caliper brackets.

I would not recommend this method of application for anything else, but for cast brakes parts and for an engine, it is very acceptable and very convenient. The excellent gloss makes up for the non smooth paint surface on something that just needs a strong coating.

As for heat resistance and durability, I think it's going to be better than a rattle can of something that even says high temp, but time will tell.
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I believe there are 2 Raybestos part numbers for the front rotors that are described as Police or the 12.7" size. It's hard to get the information, but from what I can tell, I have the Advanced Technology, 12.7" Police/Buick style rotor, part number 580387. The black painted hat style. Definitely Police size rotors, due to the 12.7" size.

So this is basically the Buick brake rotor, 12.7", though not called Police.

The Police Front Rotor they offer for our cars has the polymer rust resistance coating, BUT IT IS NOT 12.7", EVEN THOUGH IT IS CALLED POLICE. BEWARE!

This front part number is 580403P. BUT THE SPEC IS THE STANDARD DIAMETER, 11.92"!!

I cannot find the polymer coated 12.7" front rotor, or if there even is one.

The rear rotors I have are 581033, and are polymer coated, there being no physical size difference in the rear rotors, for Police or Retail/Fleet.

Bear in mind that I have the newer lever style adjuster rear calipers, requiring that style rotor. Not sure the cut-off dates of older and newer style calipers, '12+ I think is the newer lever style.

Here is this curious find for you to consider:
Scroll to first offering and note the listed OD size, click to get to the second link.
http://www.raysbestbrakes.com/ray_ymml.php

http://www.raysbestbrakes.com/prod_d...t_numb=580403P

The police pads are clearly described and labeled as Police, so the only possibility of error is getting the older style pads for rear, which I did at first, after using a parts list from the 12.7" Brakes thread. Older is ATD698P. Newer is ATD999P.

Also bear in mind that the PG or Professional Grade series is their LOWEST line, with no coatings or paint at all, and with a lower metallurgy grade of cast iron.

I would avoid the PG line, and stick to the Advanced Technology line or Police if you can find it, which is really just an offshoot of the AT line.

This may be the 12.7" polymer coated front rotor:

Plug in 580387FZN

https://www.brakepartsinc.com/raybes...t-search.html#

You can't find much for a description of them though, but here is the full offering of Raybestos from Rock Auto.

https://www.rockauto.com/en/catalog/...hub,rotor,1896

If they are the correct 12.7", polymer coated, Advanced Technology line front rotor, they are a sh!tload cheaper then the black hat version, and the FZN is apparently the new part number for the 'Best', polymer coated 580387 basic part.

Confusing as hell.

Either way, the 580387 part number is good for 12.7" Police/Buick style front rotors.

$67.89 580387

$48.79 580387FZN

Last edited by Carbide; 05-29-2017 at 09:40 AM.
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Interesting... On Rock Auto it specifically lists the 580403P as "Front, *without* Police Package" (as it should be). It's almost like Raybestos screwed up the description of their own part number on their own site!! :-)

Personally, I always use Rock Auto's site to see the different parts available and part numbers (and usually buy from there as well).

EDIT - Oh wait, that's not a Raybestos site (it tricked me!)! It's "Rays Best Brakes", so maybe it's just a screw-up on that site and not a screw-up on Raybestos' part (no pun intended!)

EDIT2: Rock Auto also lists a "580387FZN", which says it has "Rust Prevention Technology; Coated Rotor" - says that it's good for the rust belt area of the country...

Rock Auto is a fantastic site with tons of info for tons of parts.

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Originally Posted by jtrosky View Post
Interesting... On Rock Auto it specifically lists the 580403P as "Front, *without* Police Package" (as it should be). It's almost like Raybestos screwed up the description of their own part number on their own site!! :-)

Personally, I always use Rock Auto's site to see the different parts available and part numbers (and usually buy from there as well).

EDIT - Oh wait, that's not a Raybestos site (it tricked me!)! It's "Rays Best Brakes", so maybe it's just a screw-up on that site and not a screw-up on Raybestos' part (no pun intended!)

EDIT2: Rock Auto also lists a "580387FZN", which says it has "Rust Prevention Technology; Coated Rotor" - says that it's good for the rust belt area of the country...

Rock Auto is a fantastic site with tons of info for tons of parts.

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This is the Raybestos site, and they don't describe their own stuff all that great:

https://www.brakepartsinc.com/raybestos/en-us.html

Their new E-catalog:

https://www.brakepartsinc.com/raybes...rt-search.html

I think Rock Auto has them so cheap because nobody is buying them because nobody can figure out just what the hell they really are.

I'd order the 580387FZN, as they do list them as 12.7", and corrosion resistant, and basic part number is the same as what I installed and they are correct for big brake upgrade.

I think I'm ordering them to have them on my shelf for when these go, since they are 40 bucks cheaper a set, right now at least.
I found a deal Saturday for the rears on Amazon and I've reordered them, the price went down substantially, but it's shipped when they come in, but I'm in no hurry.

BOOM; done.

$107.57 for (2), delivered by June 1st, for the 580387FZN. Rock Auto.

And the 'deal' I put in for last week for rear rotors at Amazon now has a different price and they are charging shipping, when I bought it last week, they were out but had an Amazon Prime free shipping price and much cheaper than when I just looked so I canceled.

Very shady and deceptive.

Last edited by Carbide; 05-29-2017 at 09:30 AM.
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