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Water in transmission, frozen solid!

4K views 29 replies 6 participants last post by  mknabz28 
#1 ·
Well I rebuilt the top end on my 04 impala 3.8 non-SC and replaced the radiator due to a crack in it. When I replaced the radiator I was told the trans cooler was bad on the old one (tried to get the old repaired). Anyway I pulled the trans pan tonight and water had gotten into the transmission and it was frozen solid! I carefully chipped away at the ice the best I could and got the fluid to start draining out. My question is where to go from here? Its about 20*F outside hence the frozen water. Been a mechanic my entire life but not alot of experience with automatic transmissions, any help or input would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks,
Mike
 
#2 ·
Any chance water circulated with the ATF? If water circulated my understanding is clutches are glued on with water based glues and could delaminate.........................
 
#4 ·
So I got the ice/old ATF out, at least as much as I could with the pan removed. I also removed the ?pump? and the other round metal thing that the lines connected to. Not really sure what they are called, lol. I opened the pump thing and removed the ice from inside it then cleaned it and filled it with clean ATF to prime it. Unfortunately by this point it was very dark and getting pretty cold so I called it a night. I rigged up a heat lamp under the car with a pan to catch the drippings. Really dont know how all this is gonna work out, so any input would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks,
Mike
 
#6 ·
Yes that is an accumulator.

The main gasket for the housing is metal and reusable.

However while its apart I would highly recommend a Transgo shift kit!! It's fairly cheap and well worth it. It basically adds new and firmer springs inside to increase fluid pressure on the shifts. It is know to fix/help sloppy/slipping shifts.

Fyi: the Trans is a 4t65e. Do some research for a Trans go kit and and installation of it


Worse case scenario: you are out $50 for the kit plus fluid. It's worth a shot imo
 
#7 ·
I think a trans go shift improvement kit is the last thing he should be worrying about lol

I first must ask how water got into the transmission and not anti-freeze? If your car drives in 20℉ temperatures then adding water to the cooling system does not sound like a good idea, I think your only real option would be is to get it to a garage that's heated and let it all thaw out then have a flush done.....dropping the pan will not get all the water out, if you drove it like that for a little then the water is already in the torque converter and valve body

There's no easy way to get to those 2 either, one requires separating the engine and transmission while the other asks at a min to lower the cradle giving just enough room to pull off the side cover on the transmission giving access to the valve body/channel plate/trans pump.

Otherwise I think the harsh reality is that a trans rebuild will be in your future, that or a salvage yard transmission.
 
#8 ·
Water got into trans when the weather was warmer I kept loosing coolant so I added water until I got the cooling system squared away. Did not realize it was in their I was just pulling the pan to change fluid/filter and check out the condition of everything... needless to say it was alot worse than I thought. When I saw the frozen water I thought back to when I changed the radiator and put 2 n 2 together and figured the only way water could have got in their would have been due to the cooler failing. I have not been driving the car as I just now got some time/$$$ to get her back on the road. Thanks for the input it was a lil warmer today so I let it melt/drain, also the heat lamp is still hooked up under the car.

I have been researching the 4T65E transmission, more so these last couple days ;)

Thanks,
Mike
 
#9 ·
The reason I recommend a Transgo is it will increase the fluid pressure and help flush/move the water around.

So from here:


1. Drain as much fluid/ water as you can over the course of a few days.

A simple flush at this point isn't going to remove much water/ice from the TC. A flush is low pressure.

2. Do the Trans go kit
3. Change filter with a wix
4. New fluid and a qrt of Tranny cleaner/Lucas
5. Take it easy on the Trans and manually shift it when up shifting as much as you can.

6. Do a fluid exchange and not a flush a few hundred miles later.


I don't recommend a Trans flush ... If you don't know the previous maint on the Trans. A lot of times a flush can cause more harm than good on these transmissions. Research it

If you are not getting the "max adapt" transmission code then chances are the transmission is not slipping terribly and doesn't have that much of a loss of pressure.

I would say you are still safe somehow

How many miles was put on the Trans with it slipping? And how bad is it? Have you ever experienced harsh/hard shifts after the car warms up? If so that is a "max adapt" code.
 
#10 ·
Before the head gasket blew the trans NEVER had any problems, I was always paranoid about it cause I knew they had a few known issues. Since I rebuilt the motor the car has pretty much sat (last spring) I drove it and I started having issues with the cooling system:

First it started overheating and the radiator cracked. I replaced the radiator and drove it and it drove fine then started to overheat thats when I realized the heater core was dumping coolant all over the passenger floorboard. I bypassed that and started driving it again thats when the tranny started acting a lil strange. It was slipping starting out cold and started at lights. This is when I stopped driving the car, as I didn't want to do any additional damage and I realized the trans fluid was pretty old. Since then I have not really had any time/$$$ to do any work on the car.

Car has 145,XXX miles
 
#11 ·
Today is 42*F and the trans is thawed I am currently working on the car so some quick responses would be greatly appreciated :eek:k3:

Should I go ahead and pull the side cover and rebuild as much of the trans as possible or should I go the route G25racer suggested? As time and $ are an issue that sounds like a great approach to me, however I do not want to do any further damage.

Also should I do a trans cooler flush? I saw the cans of cleaner/flusher that hooks to the lines that seems like it would be a good idea to do to flush the lines/cooler.

Thanks again for all the help it is greatly appreciated, like I said I am a seasoned mechanic I just always had that ATF or "Automatic Transmission Fear" :lol: instilled in me from a young age from my dad who taught me a good portion of what I know (has been a mechanic his whole life is now 78)

~Mike~
 
#12 ·
If water circulated in the tranny I would expect the clutches to be delaminated I wouldn't throw a Transo kit or anything at it. If you want to try a can of flush I don't think it would hurt but at the same time you won't be flushing the converter so I see little point.

If you want to put it back together and see if it drives worst I see it costing is a tow home. I think the tranny is in need of a full overhaul though.

I would be happy if you proved my suspicion on the clutches wrong but it was a tranny guy that told me water is instant death for them.
 
#13 ·
Yes I have heard this too quite a few times... Im thinking throw in this new filter, seal her up, top her off with ATF, try and drive her a little see how that works out, then drop the pan again and change fluid/filter. Do this a few times depending on how she acts.

Thanks,
Mike
 
#17 ·
You should be able to get most of the fluid out in 2 changes.. Of the 12 qts in there about ~9 qts come out with a pan drop and filter change.. With the car acting the way it was I'd expect the worse and hopefully you have a positive outcome.
 
#18 ·
Update: Unfortunately the weather lately has been for lack of a better word, terrible, lol. I live in Ohio and it has been below freezing now going on 2 weeks+ and some days even below 0 :gaah:
I bought a small space heater and set it under the car to keep the tranny/engine a little warmer, dont really know how thats working though honestly. When I get a warm enough day I am going to get her back together and we will see the moment of truth :hope:. Im going to rebuild the accumulator the right way inside before I throw it back in.

My question is this, Im not trying to put alot of money into this until I see how it works out, however I will spend what is needed for the best chances of it working. I plan to install a home made shift kit DIY Home made shift kit. - DIY - RegalGS put in a 2-3 spring in the 1-2, scuff the walls with a 3m pad, and do a cooler/line flush. Maybe put a little lucas in with the ATF.

Any advise would be appreciated as always, and would you suggest the longer or shorter spacers for the shift kit? Also is their any place I could buy a can of the cooler line flush locally?

Thanks,
Mike
 
#19 ·
*UPDATE*
Well I got it back together on Saturday, put the spacers in the accumulator, havn't got another 2-3 spring to swap in the 1-2 yet figured id get one and throw it in next time I drop the pan. Also I went ahead and ran some 2g wire from the Alt to the top fuse box term, a small jumper across to the bottom then from the bottom to the Batt+. Replaced both Ground wires going to Batt-. Ran another from the starter+ to Batt+.

Anyway Car ran great all day tranny shifted fine no slipping, then i parked it and overnight the tranny cooler in the new radiator busted... :gaah: :bang:
Honestly I think it got a lil below freezing and I had water in the radiator because I had just filled it and was just taking it as a test run then I was going to add coolant. It was a nice day and I didn't even think it would get below freezing that night. :bang: So no one to blame but myself.

Do they have stand alone tranny coolers I could mount that would be seperate from the radiator? I have also heard that our transmissions do not even need a cooler. Whats the story with that could I just eliminate the cooler entirely and just run a line from the feed to the return ports?

Just trying to weigh out my options need to get this thing up and running!

Thanks,
~Mike~
 
#22 ·
Honestly.. A radiator. With a lifetime warranty is around 100 bucks.. Its worth it especially considering the fact I replaced mine 3 times in about 60k miles.. You could buy the stand alone cooler but you'd have to figure out how to bolt it to somewhere with air flow.
 
#23 ·
Agreed I would just go with a new radiator.
 
#25 ·
Nice update.
 
#26 ·
*UPDATE* Car has been driving great except for an intermittent rough idle, and stalling out the blue occasionally, which I'm suspecting the IAC maybe??? Some help with this would be great but more importantly what started last night... I was driving home about 3am and the tranny just started slipping really bad then wouldn't go at all it was like I was in neutral, the engine would rev but the car wouldn't go. Now the weird part is that when I turned the car off then started it back up it would start driving fine for a minute or two then start slipping until it was like I was in neutral again. Well I got the car home last night by driving a lil till I couldnt, turning the car off, starting it back up, driving a lil, etc.

This morning I had an appointment and had to get their quick and needed my car so I changed out the fluid to try and get more of the water out by disconnecting the cooler line, starting it up and letting the ATF/water out, then reconnecting It and filled her up with new ATF.
I started her up drove her around the block and she ran great, shifted fine. So im on my way to my appointment and the tranny started slipping again then the "neutral" condition, so I pulled off the highway and got the car to my gfs parents house that was nearby. I noticed the trans was getting kinda hot when I popped the hood. Its even worse today as It will only drive maybe 100ft after each restart if that, so its at my gfs parents for the meantime till I get it back here.

So.... any ideas guys/girls???
 
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